YN-560II Syncs with Nikon CLS Without Limits

We previously posted an article showing that it is possible to sync the original YN-560 with a popup flash as commander and a Nikon SB-800.  However, there were limits to the shutter speed that could be used.

BFP reader XiaoLi Zhang tested the Yongnuo YN-560 II's ability to sync with Nikon's wireless flash and found that the YN-560II can sync with virtually no limits!  Hit the jump to see the remarkable results of XiaoLi's tests.

Old School

From left to right: the SB-80DX, the SB-800, and the SB-26

Is there any reason to buy an old flash in this age of wireless TTL?  If you are looking for a multiple flash setup, some of these old dinosaurs may actually offer better value than even the YongNuo YN-560.

Is the YongNuo YN-560 a Headturner?

WARNING: I have ZERO evidence whether this works.  You may kill your YN560 in the process.  I am sure this will violate whatever warranty YongNuo or the seller may have.  Do this at your own risk!!!

Alas poor YN-560!

It must have started about a week ago, when I was looking around at a camera store and saw a Yongnuo YN460-RX flash -- Yongnuo's latest flash, with built-in radio manual and radio TTL remote adjustment.  My poor YN560 sensed that I was a little distracted and knew something was going on.  It put two and two together, figured its days were numbered, and formulated a plan.

The YN560 saw its opportunity when we went to the beach this past weekend.  I used the YN560 as an off-camera flash, mounted on a Propet umbrella bracket, firing through a Creative Light translucent umbrella.  For these shots, I waded into the water with our toddler.

As I was taking some photos, the YN560 found a way to loosen itself and dive into the water...!  I looked around in time just to see it splash into the water and fire its last pulse of flash, giving up its soul.  "I served thee well, master, as best as I could," it seemed to say.  "Through the drop tests and open heart surgery, I came through for you ...  I hope you like the images I helped you get and that you'll find happiness with your next flash!"  And that was the last time its Xenon bulb would ever shine again.

I grabbed it without hesitation - stupidly perhaps - getting a little electric shock in the process.  I rushed it back to shore and took out the batteries, which felt extremely hot.  However, even I knew it was too late.  No amount of drying or exchanging batteries would bring the spark back into the little YN560.

Oh, YN560, if you only knew - I had no plans to replace you.  With your ability to sync at extra-high sync speeds without the aid of HSS, and Matrix-style reflexes enabling optical sync at 1/8000 shutter speed, I could always use your photons.  You were content to let the SB-800 grab the headlines, even though it was your rim light that made my shots look a little better. You helped me cheat the shutter's twin razor blades when the mighty SB-800 could not.  Together we broke the CLS code.  You even helped me sell a house and a crib.  And how could I forget that you helped me learn manual flash?  Ah, little YN-560, you worked as hard as the underpaid laborers who made you.  Farewell!

Real Estate Photos - Part 1: Strobist Style (Intermediate)

I took some real estate photos today for a friend who's a broker.  When I got to the house, it was midday with the sun almost directly overhead.  I would have preferred to take photos close to the golden hour, but I had a scheduling conflict.  The overhead sun though, was perfect for one of the rooms - a hallway with a skylight.

Here is the first test shot - all ambient (ISO: 200, f/4, 1/60):

The first thing I tried to improve the shot was to add more light in the green room.  I set the YN-560 in the green room on a window sill (so that it would be consistent with the natural light), bouncing to the white ceiling.  I used the YN-560 in optical slave mode and triggered it with the D300's popup flash in manual mode.  The YN-560 triggered successfully even though it was not in the line of sight, and the popup was on 1/128 power.  I kept the exposure value the same but used f/8 for sharpness (ISO: 200, f/8, 1/15), and I used the YN-560 on 1/4 power.

I didn't like how the popup lit the balustrade, so I attached an SG-3IR infrared filter to cover the popup flash.  This time, 1/128 power did not work.  With the SG-3IR, however, I could use the popup flash on full power without affecting the exposure.  So that's what I did:

Next, I wanted to brighten the hallway a bit without destroying the ambience from the ambient :) I tried putting an SB-800 in the room at camera left, aimed at the ceiling.  The SB-800 was on manual, in SU-4 mode, I believe at 1/8 power.  I again kept the exposure the same.

It created a shadow on the ceiling that I found distracting.  I tried bouncing it instead, behind me.

The brightening effect on the room was enough but I felt that the balustrade was illuminated too much.  I reduced the power on the SB-800 by a stop:

A crude lighting diagram (the red flash is the YN-560 and the green flash is the SB-800):

 Comparing the original ambient-only shot with the final shot:

I tried taking a shot of the same hallway from a different angle. This time I tried putting the Sb-800 on the window sill of the room on camera left, bouncing to the ceiling.  A lighting diagram:

I adjusted power so that its shadow would be almost invisible.

(Darn - I forgot to turn on the lights in both shots...)

For my other shots, I tried a different technique (HDR), which I'll post about next.

YongNuo YN-560 Label

I like the interface of the YN-560 because I find it simple and quick to make adjustments. But one of the things that took getting used to is the absence of a label for the power level. Instead, you have to count the number of LEDs that are lit in order to determine the power setting or the adjustments in 1/8 EV steps. David Hobby lamented this in his review of the YN-560.

Fortunately, there's a space above the LEDs that can be conveniently used for a label. I experimented with different font sizes and margins and found one that worked reasonably well. A PDF version is below. If you wish to modify it, you can get the Word version instead. (I believe the files have no viruses but please double-check. I don't want to be an unwitting accomplice in spreading any malware.)

I printed the label on an Avery label then cut it to size, leaving just a thin border around the label itself. With the thin border, the sticker can be aligned with the edge of the display window on the back of the flash and will be exactly the width of the display window.

Word format:


PDF format:

Yongnuo YN-560 Zoom Repair

CAUTION: a flash can contain dangerous amounts of electricity.  You can die.  Do this at your own risk.

Feeling suicidal (ahem) "terribly disappointed" about our toddler's birthday photos, I attempted the dangerous task of repairing my Yongnuo YN-560 flash.  After all, my life insurance premiums were current... (no pun intended).

In all seriousness, I dropped my YN-560 by accident.  Although the flash still worked, the zoom ceased to function.  I attempted these repairs after being encouraged by a commenter (or two) who also provided a helpful link to instructions for repairing the zoom on a Nikon SB-600.  I'm not a handy person at all and I don't even know for sure how the repair below worked, but it worked.  Here's what I did.

Link to photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/creadvty/YongnuoYN560Repair#

Step 0: try to discharge the electricity in the capacitor.  I set the flash to full power, pressed the test button, then immediately opened the battery cover.  Then I waited several hours.

Step 1: remove the rubber covers on the sides of the flash head.  I used a small flathead screwdriver to pry the cover off, which was glued to the flash head.


Step 2: remove the metal clips near the hinge.  There are two metal clips on each side of the flash head.  I removed them by prying them off with a small flathead screwdriver.


Step 3: remove the screws on the bottom of the flash head.


Step 4: pull the flash head apart.  Mine seemed to have some sort of rubber glue holding it together.


When you pull the flash head apart, you'll find a piece of plastic that seems to be for holding the wires together and maybe protecting them from external elements (?).


Step 5: remove the 2 screws holding the flash head body to the top of the flash head cover (circled in red in the picture).


Step 6: you'll see that the top of the flash head body has a screw drive.  I did not find any damage on the screw drive on my flash, so I was at a loss as to what to do to fix it.  Not having anything better to do with it, I rolled the screw drive with my fingers (warning: it's oily) until the flash moved to the most zoomed position (with the flash bulb furthest away from the edge of the flash head) so that I could have the benefit of the high GN at a cost of decreased coverage.


When I put the flash back together, I noticed that the sound was a bit different, and I tested the zoom.  I was shocked that the zoom worked.
24mm:


105mm:

YongNuo YN-560 flash - update

I did a few more tests to follow up on my initial impressions.

1. Optical slave: Infrared not visible light.

I discovered that the YN-560's optical slave detects infrared light not visible light.  This is useful if we want to avoid any contribution from the triggering flash, by covering it with an infrared filter such as the SG-3IR.

In the image above, I used the popup to trigger the YN-560 but covered the popup with an the SG-3IR, yet the YN-560 triggered successfully.

2. Sync speed:

An interesting discovery is that the YN-560 can sync at 1/3 stop higher than the natural sync speed, whether on-camera or on either optical sync mode, with only a very slight reduction in power.

Baseline shot at normal sync speed: ISO 200, f/32, 1/250, YN-560 at full power, on-camera:

Test shot: same as above at 1/320, YN-560 on-camera:

Test shot: ISO 200, f/32, 1/320, YN-560 on S1 mode, popup flash at Manual mode 1/128 with SG-3IR infrared filter:

Test shot: ISO 200, f/32, 1/320, YN-560 on S2 mode, popup flash at TTL mode -3 FEC with SG-3IR infrared filter:

Note: in the latter two shots, the white balance is correct because the camera is aware that flash is being used, and Nikon's CLS corrects white balance for flash use.  In the first two shots, the camera acted as though it was not aware that a flash was fired, therefore there was no white balance correction.

Another interesting discovery is that when the YN-560 is on-camera, the camera does not limit the shutter speed to 1/250.  This allows trick shots like the one above.

In the shot above, I used the YN-560 on-camera to trigger the SB-800 on SU-4 (optical slave) mode. The flash appears invisible on the SB-800's flash head although it lights up my face, because the flash is blocked by the rear curtain but its light on my face is not.  The flash unit itself is not obscured by the rear curtain however because it is illuminated by the ambient light from the sun.
 
3. Flash duration:
The published specifications for the YN-560 state that at full power, the flash duration is 1/200.  That is incredibly slow for a hotshoe flash (the SB-800 claims a flash duration of 1/800 at full power).  If the 1/200 flash duration is true, then at a sync speed of 1/250, you wouldn't get full power - instead you would get 1/3 of a stop less power (i.e., around 16.67% less power).

To test flash duration, I used a point and shoot camera, the Casio Exilim EX-V7 (which has no mechanical shutter and can theoretically sync at any speed), and compared the output of the YN-560 at speeds from 1/125 to 1/800 (the highest shutter speed on my point and shoot). My point and shoot only has TTL flash, therefore I used the YN-560's digital optical slave (which ignores preflashes).  I set the Casio's flash to -2 FEC and covered it with an SG-3IR.

a. Baseline shot (showing ambient "deleted")  ISO 64, f/10.6, 1/125.

b. YN-560 @ full power, ISO 64, f/10.6, 1/125:

c. same as above, at 1/200:

d. same as above at 1/640:

e. same as above, at 1/800:

Conclusion: the fastest shutter speed where there is no noticeable decrease in flash exposure at full power is 1/640.  At 1/800 there is a very slight reduction in flash exposure, presumably from clipping of flash duration.  Speeds higher than 1/800 were not tested.

4. Power:

There had been conflicting results regarding the YN-560's power.  Earlier reports found the power to be similar to an SB-600.  However, it appears there is now a consensus that the power is similar to an SB-800:

• Following a test of a production model, Speedlights.net found the power to be the same as a YN-460 II, which is greater than an SB-600 and almost identical to an SB-900, with an approximate GN of 33 meters at 35mm zoom and ISO 100.
• Strobist Flickr group member Kurbster found the YN-560 to yield an aperture of f/32 at a distance of 1 meter at ISO 100, implying a GN of 32 meters. 

These updated results are consistent with my first impressions of the YN-560, where I thought the output was similar to an SB-800.

5. TTL Accuracy with CLS AWL

As previously posted, it is possible to synchronize the output of the YN-560 with a commander flash and a slave flash operating using Nikon's CLS Advanced Wireless Lighting.  One question is whether TTL flash exposure remains accurate when the YN-560 is contributing light.  It would seem that it the answer should obviously be no because the YN-560 doesn't fire during the TTL preflashes, therefore its output is not taken into account in the TTL flash metering.  However, I was hoping that after the TTL preflashes fire, it specifies the flash exposure instead of flash output, and thus it would be possible for the YN-560 to avoid skewing the TTL accuracy.

To test whether TTL accuracy is affected by the YN-560's contribution, I fired an SB-800 on-camera and used it to trigger a YN-560 in a dual flash bracket.  For the baseline shot, I lit a subject with just the SB-800 on TTL mode.  I then did a test shot with the YN-560 contributing light and compared the two exposures for similarity.

Baseline shot: f/11, 1/250, ISO 200, SB-800 on TTL (0 FEC).

Comparison shot: f/11, 1/250, ISO 200, SB-800 on TTL (0 FEC) and YN-560 at 1/16 power.

Evidently, TTL accuracy is affected by the YN-560.

6. Other observations:
- My unit didn't come with a sto-fen type diffuser.  That's ok. I very rarely use them anyway.  Come to think of it, I don't recall ever using one other than for testing purposes because diffusion doesn't soften light.
- I agree with other reviewers that the pilot light (test light) is harder to press than the other buttons but doesn't take THAT much effort.  It's just stiff, that's all.
- The sound button (also functions as the power save button) occasionally doesn't respond.

YongNuo YN-560 drop test

My recently received YN-560 went through a drop test.  Rest assured I did not do it intentionally (heaven knows I haven't made a dime out of this blog! :)) ).

My flash dropped from a height of 3 feet to a solid stone floor.  It was actually more than just dropped.  I was cleaning my bag and shaking off sand (our toddler dumped sand into my camera bag... argh).  I thought my zipper was completely closed but it wasn't -- and as I shook the bag downward, the flash fell with a loud bang against the floor.  I believe the flash head hit first.

After the drop, the flash was still functioning (including the strange digital optical slave mode)... except for the zoom.  When I turn on the flash I can hear a short, loud hum (presumably the zoom motor).  When I adjust the zoom, the lights change but the zoom doesn't work anymore.  So my unit is stuck at 70mm.  :( At least the built-in diffuser still works...

UPDATE: YN-560 fixed!

How to Sync the YN-560 with Nikon CLS Advanced Wireless Lighting

***Update: YN-560II is able to sync with Nikon CLS without limits. See here***


BACKGROUND (you can skip this if you just want to  know how to get the YN-560 to sync :) ): 

I got the YongNuo YN-560 to supplement my Nikon SB800 (controlled by my Nikon D300's popup).  I knew the YN-560 was a manual flash that wasn't controllable by the pop-up flash as commander, but I didn't mind.  I planned to control the SB800 remotely while allowing the YN-560 to function in manual mode for special effects like background light, rim light, etc.  It seems other photographers had the same plan (see here for example).  Finally, someone was able to do it.  I ordered the YN-560 and when I finally received it, that was the very first function I tested.

Unfortunately it didn't work.  I thought it was just unreliable, so I tried a few times.  Nope -- not only did it fail to sync, it didn't fire at all.  I tried various settings, such as changing the popup from inactive to TTL to Manual, and the SB-800 from TTL to AA (auto aperture) to Manual.  I tried reassigning the SB-800 to Group B instead of group A, activating and deactivating Group B, switching between the 4 available channels.  Nothing seemed to work.  Regular slave mode did work of course (where the YN-560 does not ignore preflashes), but that wasn't enough for me.

I was able to contact the photographer who was able to trigger it and he said his popup was on commander mode but inactive (i.e., not contributing to exposure) and he was able to trigger the SB-600.   However, I didn't know the exact settings.

I finally resolved to try some more combinations of settings.  After a couple of hundred test shots I was ready to give up.  Then I tried to figure out what exactly was going on with the YN-560.  Why wasn't it firing at all when the popup was on commander mode?  I then hypothesized that when the YN-560 detects a preflash, it will "hold its breath" for a specific time limit, and within that time limit, the YN-560 will ignore preflashes and watch for the "real" flash.  However, if preflashes last throughout the duration of that time limit, the YN-560 gives up and shuts up, until it can restart the cycle after a pause.  ***That's just a hypothesis.  It's not necessarily correct.***

Based on the hypothesis, I thought the commander preflashes were exceeding the time limit for detecting the real flash.  I can't shorten the preflashes, but I thought about allowing giving the cycle time to reset by using a combination of FV Lock, rear curtain sync, and a slow shutter speed.  Guess what? It worked.  That gave me hope to try out some more settings.

THE RULES FOR SYNCING THE YN-560 WITH CLS AWL:
 Assumptions: the user wants to use a flash in commander mode to adjust a CLS AWL-compatible flash (either TTL, AA or M) while using the YN-560 manually in digital optical sync (S2 mode). Only one CLS group was tested.

Testing conditions: Nikon D300 with popup flash as commander, one SB800 as CLS slave (set to 105mm zoom), one YN-560 (set to 105 mm zoom).  Dark ambient conditions (i.e., optimal triggering conditions).  I aimed the two flashes about 3 feet from a wall.  The YN-560's sensor (in the body) was aimed at the wall.  The SB-800's cls sensor was facing up.  To facilitate differentiation of output, The flashes were at different vertical positions.  In addition, the SB-800's sound was turned off (because in my experience the SB-800 triggers very reliably), while the 560's sound was turned on.

Here are the convoluted conditions for the YN-560 to sync correctly with the Nikon CLS Advanced Wireless Lighting, as far as I can determine.

1. The variables that affect sync are:
a. the flash sync mode
b. shutter speed
c. the flash exposure mode of the popup and the CLS slave
d. whether FV lock is used
e. whether the slave is assigned to Group A or Group B.  Group C not tested.
f. whether Group B is inactive or not.  Group C not tested.
g. the channel being used.


2. The easy stuff:
a.  FLASH SYNC MODE:  The camera has to be set to rear curtain sync.  Front curtain will not work.  Red eye will not work.  Slow sync by itself will not work.  Slow rear sync may work if the resulting shutter speed is 1/10 or faster. Note that if you select rear curtain while in P or A mode, slow rear sync will automatically be selected.
b. CLS SLAVE GROUP: assign the CLS slave to Group A.  The CLS slave can work in Group B but under fewer conditions.  I didn't test all the combinations.
c. CLS CHANNEL: use Channel 1.  Channel 2 and others work, but under fewer conditions.  I didn't test all the combinations.

3. The weird stuff:
a. In all cases, shutter speed has to be 1/10 or faster.  Any slower and it won't sync.
b. The fastest shutter speed depends on the flash exposure mode of the popup and the CLS slave.  General rule: the fastest shutter speed is 1/125. I haven't been able to sync at 1/160 or faster.  Exceptions to the general rule:
i. if the popup is on TTL, then FV lock is needed to sync at 1/125.  Otherwise, the fastest shutter speed is 1/100.
ii. if the CLS slave is on M and the popup is on either inactive ("--") or M, then the fastest shutter speed is 1/60.
See this spreadsheet for a summary: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AoRnW2_ZeadSdEZPY2VCRHBxaHVnRTJQZXJwX1p5OHc&hl=en&authkey=COmm5uMF

4. The good news: If the rules above indicate that a sync is possible, then on each occasion I've tried, the popup and CLS slave can each be adjusted, and FV Lock will work (where applicable).

ALTERNATIVES
As an alternative to the foregoing, it is of course possible to use the YN-560 in S1 (regular optical slave mode), while the other flashes are in Manual or Non-TTL Auto mode.  Another alternative is to use the YN-560 in S2 mode, the popup on regular TTL, and an SB-800 or SB-900 in SU-4 optical slave mode.

UPDATE
Please check out the update on the YN-560 re sync speed and other interesting info.

News Flash! YN-560 Syncs with Nikon CLS AWL!

I recently reported that I received a YN-560 flash which had some interesting surprises but failed to sync with the pop-up flash on commander mode.  Through testing and experimentation, I found a specific set of settings that will allow the 560 to sync with the pop-up flash on commander mode.  Will report the findings (and settings of course) this weekend.

UPDATE: Rules for syncing the YN-560 mapped out here

Yong Nuo YN-560 first impressions and surprises

UPDATE 1: I found out how to make the YN-560 sync with the pop-up flash in commander mode! http://betterfamilyphotos.blogspot.com/2010/07/news-flash-yn-560-syncs-with-nikon-cls.html

UPDATE 2: other tests of the YN-560: http://betterfamilyphotos.blogspot.com/2010/08/yongnuo-yn-560-flash-update.html
-----

So I finally got the YN-560 today, a little less than 2 weeks after I ordered it. In the meantime, speedlights.net has posted a very thorough review of the YN-560, so I'll just mention the few things that I found so far that were new or different. I didn't have a lot of time to test it but because there's some possibly disappointing info, I wanted to bring this to potential buyers' attention right away.  Note: the camera I used was a Nikon D300.

1. Power: I don't have a light meter, but based on my very unscientific test, I would guess that the power is closer to the SB800 (per Kurbster.com) not the SB600 (per speedlights.net). What I did was to put the 2 flashes approximately the same distance from the wall, side by side, then compared their output. The output looked identical in terms of intensity at 35mm zoom and at 105mm zoom, though the SB800 covered a slightly larger area. I plan to conduct more a more rigorous test (by comparing the histograms) this weekend.

2. When the flash is attached to the camera, my camera acts like there is no flash, i.e., shutter speed is not limited to sync speed, even with Auto FP disabled.  This is useful for trick shots like this one: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/08/on-assignment-50-years.html , and fortunately the rear curtain appears at the top of the D300's frame, which means shooting upside down is not necessary.

3. Whether on-camera or as an optical slave (either mode), the flash can sync at 1/320 with no noticeable decrease in output (at least on low power -- I plan to test this more thoroughly this weekend). At 1/400 and at higher speeds on-camera, the flash is visible but blocked by the rear curtain. At 1/400 off-camera (as optical slave), the flash output isn't visible at all.

4. The digital optical slave (which ignores the preflashes) works with TTL flash but not in CLS AWL commander mode. In commander mode the YN560 doesn't only fail to sync -- it doesn't fire at all. I tried various combinations of the popup flash being on TTL or manual, and the SB800 being on TTL, AA or Manual. I tried different channels, and assigning the SB800 to Group A or Group B. No combination worked except for the popup being on TTL and all other channels being deactivated (which is in effect just like using the pop-up on TTL mode). This is contrary to the experience of speedlights.net owner's fransener ( http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobis...7624196263437/ ), so I'm very disappointed but will conduct more tests. I've also contacted him to inquire.  To be fair, the YN560's manual does state on p.33 that the digital optical slave is NOT designed to work for red-eye flash, Nikon's commander mode, or Canon's wireless flash (including the ST-E2).

For now, if the YN-560 doesn't work with the commander mode, my plan is to use the pop-up flash on manual mode (covering it with an SG-3IR if I don't need it as on-axis fill), then use the SB800 in SU-4 mode in manual, and the YN-560 in S1 (regular optical slave) mode.  Alternatively, I can connect a TTL cord to the SB800 to fire it in TTL off-camera, then put the YN-560 in S2 (digital optical slave) mode.

5. The optical slave (both modes) works even when I cover the flash with an SG-3IR infrared filter, implying that the YN-560 is triggered by infrared, not visible light.  I plan to double check this (it's possible that the pop-up flash reflection from the SG-3IR was sufficient to trigger the YN-560).

Overall, I'm ok with the flash so far.  I also plan to see how well the digital optical slave works with my point-and-shoot (Casio Exilim EX-V7).  A P&S camera doesn't have a mechanical shutter, so I think I can sync at its highest shutter speed of 1/800, which would be very useful for underexposing bright ambient light.  At that speed, the practical limit becomes the flash duration (at full power, the YN-560's t0.1 flash duration is 1/320).  

All of those coming up this weekend...